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Offline Cornelius
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« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2009, 03:35:46 am »
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These two threads started out on the subjects . the Flor do Mar  and the person Robert Marx . I think we can say for sure that the Flor do Mar was never found or salvaged , and that Marx is a lyer . For me this is the end of this discussion . Cornelius

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2009, 03:36:37 am »
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Quote:Posted by Cornelius
These two threads started out on the subjects . the Flor do Mar  and the person Robert Marx . I think we can say for sure that the Flor do Mar was never found or salvaged , and that Marx is a lyer . For me this is the end of this discussion . Cornelius


Oh, good. Bye, bye.

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Offline NihonsilverTopic starter
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« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2009, 06:22:45 pm »
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Hello Goldigger,

I was out of town so I could not reply to your question about "provenance" until now. All the items that Marx sells are, according to him and his certs, supposedly from either the Flor site or the sites of several Chinese wrecks that he supposedly found in Indonesia shortly after the Flor. He states they are Shang dynasty wrecks. What a complete joke.

Interestingly enough, it appears some flak has gotten back to Marx recently and he has told a couple of people he is not selling anything anymore. This is good if true. But I want him to come out in public and apologize to all the people he ripped off, return their funds and admit that he never found the Flor.

He should also admit he never found any Roman galleys in Brazil. The amphorae jars he exacavated in Guanabara Bay were the property of a local diver named Americo Santarelli who had placed the jars there in order to pick them up later when they had encrustations on them so he could decorate his house. This can be verified in the local news from 1982. Yet, Marx wrote in his books that he had found these ships. Check

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and scroll down the page. If you know someone in Brazil, they can dig up the news on this.

Such a bullshitter. I wonder what other lies are in his books.

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #53 on: August 19, 2009, 06:40:14 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Nihonsilver
Hello Goldigger,

I was out of town so I could not reply to your question about "provenance" until now. All the items that Marx sells are, according to him and his certs, supposedly from either the Flor site or the sites of several Chinese wrecks that he supposedly found in Indonesia shortly after the Flor. He states they are Shang dynasty wrecks. What a complete joke.

Interestingly enough, it appears some flak has gotten back to Marx recently and he has told a couple of people he is not selling anything anymore. This is good if true. But I want him to come out in public and apologize to all the people he ripped off, return their funds and admit that he never found the Flor.

He should also admit he never found any Roman galleys in Brazil. The amphorae jars he exacavated in Guanabara Bay were the property of a local diver named Americo Santarelli who had placed the jars there in order to pick them up later when they had encrustations on them so he could decorate his house. This can be verified in the local news from 1982. Yet, Marx wrote in his books that he had found these ships. Check

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http://articles.gourt.com/en/Pre-Columbian%20trans-oceanic%20contact

and scroll down the page. If you know someone in Brazil, they can dig up the news on this.

Such a bullshitter. I wonder what other lies are in his books.


So you have the certificates from Robert Marx on your items?

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #54 on: August 19, 2009, 06:46:44 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Nihonsilver
I tried to put up photos of things I have bought but the files were too big. I have purchased a total of about 100 items over the years including bronze swords, jade figurines, bi-disks, statues etc. You can see a red coral carving in one photo I have. Marx has been telling people these came off the Flor. If any of you have one, please place it in a glass of water. The chemical dye will leak into the water quite quickly. And these were underwater for 500 years? I have seen these types of items all over Asia in cheap souvenir shops, sometimes exact replicas of what Marx is selling.


How did you manage to buy over 100 items before you decided they were fakes? And since we are on the subject of fakes, why do you not suspect that the people you bought them from are the ones selling the fakes and adding fake documents to them to make you believe they are from Robert Marx? I'd suspect the dealers long before I would suspect Marx of anything deliberate. Unless you were face to face with him and bought them from him directly, you have no real way to trace anything back to him. This is a hard call but you really ought to be more diligent in searching for the answer. Occam's Razor doesn't always apply.

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Offline Cornelius
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« Reply #55 on: August 20, 2009, 02:30:05 am »
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GoldDigger I forgot to mention it to you but ...Pewter is 90 to 99 % tin with copper , antimony or lead added .    Cornelius

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #56 on: August 20, 2009, 04:04:58 am »
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Quote:Posted by Cornelius
GoldDigger I forgot to mention it to you but ...Pewter is 90 to 99 % tin with copper , antimony or lead added .    Cornelius


I love the way you dodge the real questions with a smokescreen. Tin still doesn't last 400 years in sea water.

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« Reply #57 on: August 20, 2009, 06:28:43 am »
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My dear friend  . Talking about a smoke screen !  You said Pewter was not Tin . I proved you dead wrong there. Now as far as pewter lasting in sea water for over 400 years , you only have to read a few books  ( if you ever read ! ). There are many pictures and desriptions about the condition and forms of pewter plates , spoons  and cannisters . So my friend I state that you are not informed about this subject ( and I think many more ! ). All you want is twist words to raise an argument . That is alright  but at least study the subject a little before you start the argument . I think you are not too bright but I say if you want to play with the big dogs  don't pee like a puppy .. Cornelius

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« Reply #58 on: August 20, 2009, 10:11:07 am »
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Too Funny!

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Offline GoldDigger1950
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« Reply #59 on: August 20, 2009, 01:47:48 pm »
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Quote:Posted by Cornelius
My dear friend  . Talking about a smoke screen !  You said Pewter was not Tin . I proved you dead wrong there. Now as far as pewter lasting in sea water for over 400 years , you only have to read a few books  ( if you ever read ! ). There are many pictures and desriptions about the condition and forms of pewter plates , spoons  and cannisters . So my friend I state that you are not informed about this subject ( and I think many more ! ). All you want is twist words to raise an argument . That is alright  but at least study the subject a little before you start the argument . I think you are not too bright but I say if you want to play with the big dogs  don't pee like a puppy .. Cornelius


Pewter is an alloy made of tin but is not ever called tin by anyone who knows better. Clearly you do not. Pewter is pewter. Tin is in pewter but pewter is not tin. Cry and moan all you wish but stop playing games.

And are you and your "big boys" going to pee together now? That's just so precious.

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