Flor do Mar , where did she go down

Hello Cornelius

I wish you every success with your research as you have worked very hard for it. I hope you can find that even rare breed of honest investor that will support you and quest.

My time here is coming to a end soon as I have one last chance to touch the sun, the end game for an old worn out treasure hunter who dreamed so foolishly of fortune and glory so so many years ago.

Hardluck  

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,7697.msg59140.html#msg59140

Hello Cornelius

I toast to that.

cheers Hardluck 

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,7697.msg59149.html#msg59149

		Quote:			Posted by Cornelius
	Hardluck .  Pascal is in France for a few more months . I talk to him quite often but sofar he has not mentioned a posssible salvage in Italy . And .... if he is making some plans I agree with him not to talk too much about it . Regards  Cornelius

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,7697.msg107178.html#msg107178

Cornelius,  I have read your thread on this lost treasure ship the Flor do Mar, and assume that you want to locate the precise location of where she sank...yes?

If this location was known, and confirmed by a diving party with suitable magnometers, side scan sonars etc, would you work with with someone like Tony Wells a treasure diver to recover this lost treasure?

locating lost buried or sunken gold is not a hard thing to do now, it is having the funds and the equipment to carry out the recovery operations and having permission from the authorities to do so.

My frustation is always the latter, L.O.F.  LACK OF FUNDS!!

If you were given the GPS location of where this ship was now located, what would you do with this valuable piece of information???

The reason I ask is many people want to know where gold or treasure is located, but do nothing with the information! I have found this out from bitter experience... " You can lead a Horse to water but you cannot make it drink".

There is no point spending my valuable time helping others locate these lost treasures of SE Asia if they do not intend to put thier money where thier mouth is and start a recovery operation is there??

The Locations I give TH are ALWAYS verified by other relevant information that comes from other maps, or third parties that help cement what I have told the TH.

Being an "Academic" and studying the location of buried treasure is a very small part of treasure recovery... Once the FACTS are verified then you MUST go and find these lost treasures...Or you will always wonder..... If only I had go to look!

Do you understand what Iam saying here???

Tony Wells is always looking for lost treasure ships in SE Asia.. he has the ability to find and recover and SELL the gold in Makati, Singapore, Hong Kong etc etc..... You need to know WHY you want to know where this ship is located, and when you do, what ACTION will you take to recover what is onboard her..

I think that this forum should have a team of people that can work together to RECOVER these lost items.. working as a SEARCH AND RECOVERY TEAM instead of trying to reinvent the "Wheel" everytime!!

If you are greedy you will not succeed in treasure hunting. It does not work like that!

If a team came together with a CLEAR Objective to Study, Locate and RECOVER treasure to help humanity then they WOULD succeed!!!!

Individuals doing thier own little bit of research here and there means that they are islolated and will not achieve as much as a group that CAN work together without bickering or fighting each other.

Maybe you think Iam crazy... NO I have worked with greedy men in the Philippines on projects.. They have FAILED because of GREED...


Cornelius,

You need to know WHY you want the Flor do Mar... and when you find her and her wealth what you intend to do with hundreds of millions of dollars to get for her cargo......GREED or for the betterment of humanity?? knowing the precise location and placing her position on a map and storing the map away for another 30 years is not the solution is it??

Goldeneagle




Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,7697.msg163319.html#msg163319

Here is one of the many reasons why the Flor de la Mar did not sink near or around Aru.

From The Suma Oriental of Tome Pires: An Account of the East, from the Red Sea to Japan, Written in Malacca and India in 1512-1515, and The Book of ... of a Voyage (Hakluyt Society Second Series) by Armando Cortesao

Page 146       Tome Pires

A Moorish knight. He often goes to sea to pillage. He is the son in law to the king of Aru. He brought in (?) the ship Flor de la Mar which was wrecked in a storm off the coast of his counter, and they say he recovered everything water could not spoil, wherefore they say he is very rich. From what they say this Tomjano is rather wealthy. This Tamjano is often at war in the hinterland. Sometimes he fights with his father in law, sometimes with Pase, and he helps whichever he sees to be the stronger, and he receives(something) from them all. They say the kings of Bata (batar) have always had this habit. (end of 1st para)
 
(He could not have brought the Flor in, it had sunk. What he could have brought in would be the 4th ship in the expeditation, the Junk. When the Javanese saw the Flor in trouble, they killed many of the Portuguese on board and sailed to Aru. It was estimates that the lost was between 50,000 to 80,000 ducats.   
Armando Cortes?o in his footnotes on the same page has indicated where the Flor sank although he got the date wrong. See below - suparmar   )

After the conquest of Malacca, Albuquerque sailed back to India, with a small fleet of four ships, on 1 Dec, on board the Frol de la Mar (Flower of the Sea). When the ships were sailing along the north-east coast of Pase they were caught in a fierce storm and the Frol de la Mar, an old ship, was wrecked on some shoals, with great loss of life and all the treasures brought from Malacca. Albuquerque himself escaped with utmost difficulty. The chronicles do not quite agree upon the place where the Frol de la Mar was wrecked, but Albuquerque himself says in his letter of 20th Aug. 1512, written from Cochin to the King of Portugal, that Frol de la Mar was wrecked near Pase. Cartas, 1,67

suparmar


Posted on: April 17, 2011, 02:00:55 PM

---

Here is another reason why the Flor did not sink near Aru. Remember(do your research) Albuquerque's sole purpose then was to to do his duty to the King and thus he would not lie to his king in his letters.



1512 - 20th August, cartes Vol 1

 

Lord. - ........................ In other letter your highness ask about how many available ships I had in India and how many I have now. What I have to say, lord, is that in India were Frol de la Mar, the Cirne, the Rey Gramde, the Rumessa; these were ships with dimensions already known by your highness. .....................

I also left men in Cananor and Cochim as reinforcements; to sail to Malaca I just took with me the Frol de la Mar, the taforeia and the three naus which were of Diogo Mendes, sailing to their true destiny according to their contract, and the nau emxobregas; and I took with me five new naus from Goa, the two caravelinhas and the bretam and the two galleys; the minor galley armed with the large bombard wich Sim?o Martins refused to throw away by my command in Cochim, and copper which Sim?o Martins received in Cochim as a reward, which he loaded in the cabe?as of the galley, the galley was weaken at sea near Ceylon, and he throw away all the oakum because it became decomposed; we rescued all the people and the galley was abandoned right there; the taforeia was cut up near the hill of Malaca because she had become decomposed: Frol de la Mar was wrecked Near Pacee; and coming to India where I was counting to find the fleet I left there being repaired, ...................

suparmar

Linkback:

You are not allowed to view links.
Please Register or Login

http://www.thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,7697.msg163697.html#msg163697