Flor do Mar , where did she go down

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	Re: Flor do Mar , where did she go down « Reply #10 on: September 09, 2009, 02:52:49 am »

Part 1

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http://www.ssssllc.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/WDM-Flor-do-Mar-I.pdf

Part 2

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http://www.ssssllc.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/WDM-Flor-do-Mar-II.pdf

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	Re: Flor do Mar , where did she go down « Reply #11 on: September 09, 2009, 06:39:06 am »

Thanks for that article VOC. Well it seems like the Flor will never be excavated legally. Too many lawsuits will have it tied up in courts for a long time.

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	Re: Flor do Mar , where did she go down « Reply #12 on: September 09, 2009, 07:10:38 am »

Thank you , VOC ,Findoldstuff and Salvor for your interest in the matter . There are very few guys on this forum interested in shipwrecks and all that has to do with it . A few remarks , the post of VOC is information that is readily available on the net . This article was written by Robert Marx . He gets paid for these articles and as such romantisize the story . He realy does not tell us anything . The map he is using is an old map that was drawn years after the shipwreck . You have to read the map as saying , ,, somewhere here the wrecking took place ,, . Marx never found the wreck because he was looking in the wrong place . I have narrowed it down quite a bit and will write about it a little later in this thread . Marx went blindly by a map that was wrong . He did not do any research to prove that he was right by going after the wreck as he did . The few artifacts he found came most likely from some dealers in Malaysia and part of them may also have come from the wreck of the ,,van Sittard ,, if they ever found that wreck . Give me some more time and I will disclose whatever I found out . Right now I am waiting on some archives that will be sent to me . I am working with a 180 year old atlas from Indonesia ( at that time ,, the Dutch East Indies ,, ) . This atlas is the only one outside of the musea and very accurate . It shows the coastline of Sumatra the way it realy was ( and is ) . This map will help me quite a bit in my research . Cornelius

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	Re: Flor do Mar , where did she go down « Reply #13 on: September 09, 2009, 12:17:57 pm »

Cornelius, if I understand it, didnt the pilot of the Flor (who was one of the survivors) draw a chart of the area with the position of the wreck?

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	Re: Flor do Mar , where did she go down « Reply #14 on: September 09, 2009, 12:39:55 pm »

No Salvor there was no map drawn at that time . They just told the story and later mapmakers filled in the spot they thought was the wrecking place . It was not that important anyhow because they saw no way of salvaging the wreck . You see , the East coast of Sumatra is a very low area with a lot of mud ( contrary to the West coast which is very hilly with a lot of high mountains ) . When we say that the sip was wrecked on a reef , I think that is was more like a sand bar or bank . These sandbars changed with the tides because of a very strong current . Of course it could have been a reef but this is highly unlikely . In an area like that the ship would have sunk into the mud within 4 or 5 days . Most of the ship would have been vanished in the first day . So possible salvage , even at a shallow depth , by the local population probably never took place . Regards Cornelius

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	Re: Flor do Mar , where did she go down « Reply #15 on: September 09, 2009, 07:03:06 pm »

Hello Cornelius, Salvor and all
Mud could be a good thing.
Depending on how bad the ship broke apart. Mud could hold the parts together tighter than in sand. Cornelius you might also check sub surface surveys ( soil surveys) of course a core sample of the suspected area would yield better results. In other words it might tell you how deep the targets may have sunk in the mud.
Ships in mud have been better preserved than in sand. Just let us know how we can help.
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	Re: Flor do Mar , where did she go down « Reply #16 on: September 10, 2009, 07:48:24 am »

Cornelius, Though I have nothing to offer as far as research on this wreck, I'm very interested in your research. Please keep posting . It seems you have stirred up some interest among some who have theories and research of their own. Too bad the wreck is on the other side of the world. Not too many of us have the funding available to go after it.
Best.
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	Re: Flor do Mar , where did she go down « Reply #17 on: September 10, 2009, 08:39:15 am »

Aquanut . For some it is enough to do the research and find the wrecking place Teach

. For others it is the gold they are after Devil

. I don't know in what category I fall . I will post whatever I can find on this story . If there are people that are going to use my info , they are welcome to it . To dig up information is an adventure by itself . Cornelius

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	Re: Flor do Mar , where did she go down « Reply #18 on: September 14, 2009, 05:13:41 pm »

Here is info from the wrecksite:

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http://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?104916

Same ship ?
Best Regards, Jan

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	Re: Flor do Mar , where did she go down « Reply #19 on: September 15, 2009, 01:46:42 pm »

Cornelius, definitely interested as I have spent a little bit of time researching this shipwreck myself. Thanks for bringing up the subject and please continue !
Posted on: September 15, 2009, 02:21:35 PM

	Quote:	Posted by Cornelius
Thank you , VOC ,Findoldstuff and Salvor for your interest in the matter . There are very few guys on this forum interested in shipwrecks and all that has to do with it . A few remarks , the post of VOC is information that is readily available on the net . This article was written by Robert Marx . He gets paid for these articles and as such romantisize the story . He realy does not tell us anything . The map he is using is an old map that was drawn years after the shipwreck . You have to read the map as saying , ,, somewhere here the wrecking took place ,, . Marx never found the wreck because he was looking in the wrong place . I have narrowed it down quite a bit and will write about it a little later in this thread . Marx went blindly by a map that was wrong . He did not do any research to prove that he was right by going after the wreck as he did . The few artifacts he found came most likely from some dealers in Malaysia and part of them may also have come from the wreck of the ,,van Sittard ,, if they ever found that wreck . Give me some more time and I will disclose whatever I found out . Right now I am waiting on some archives that will be sent to me . I am working with a 180 year old atlas from Indonesia ( at that time ,, the Dutch East Indies ,, ) . This atlas is the only one outside of the musea and very accurate . It shows the coastline of Sumatra the way it realy was ( and is ) . This map will help me quite a bit in my research . Cornelius

	Quote:	Posted by Cornelius
Thank you , VOC ,Findoldstuff and Salvor for your interest in the matter . There are very few guys on this forum interested in shipwrecks and all that has to do with it . A few remarks , the post of VOC is information that is readily available on the net . This article was written by Robert Marx . He gets paid for these articles and as such romantisize the story . He realy does not tell us anything . The map he is using is an old map that was drawn years after the shipwreck . You have to read the map as saying , ,, somewhere here the wrecking took place ,, . Marx never found the wreck because he was looking in the wrong place . I have narrowed it down quite a bit and will write about it a little later in this thread . Marx went blindly by a map that was wrong . He did not do any research to prove that he was right by going after the wreck as he did . The few artifacts he found came most likely from some dealers in Malaysia and part of them may also have come from the wreck of the ,,van Sittard ,, if they ever found that wreck . Give me some more time and I will disclose whatever I found out . Right now I am waiting on some archives that will be sent to me . I am working with a 180 year old atlas from Indonesia ( at that time ,, the Dutch East Indies ,, ) . This atlas is the only one outside of the musea and very accurate . It shows the coastline of Sumatra the way it realy was ( and is ) . This map will help me quite a bit in my research . Cornelius

Cornelius, I showed a copy of that map to a spanish friend of mine and asked him to translate the words Aqui Seperdeo Alfonso d' Albuquerque that mark the purported spot of the wreck. His transation was " Here lost Alfonso d' Albuquerque". My thoughts at the time was what did he lose there?? Based on some research I had done, the only thing I could think of that he lost there, if my friends translation is taken literally, was the junk loaded with some of the Mollucan treasure and it's original crew that had escaped to that area after killing the portugese crew that Albuquerque had placed on board. And not the Flor itself. That is just my personal conjecture.

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