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Offline alimanTopic starter
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« Reply #220 on: January 30, 2010, 05:54:44 pm »
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Hi guys, I put together this simple Transistor tester on my proto board and I tested TIP31C, and it tested OK. So I know for a fact that TIP31C is not fried.

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Offline Peti80
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« Reply #221 on: January 31, 2010, 05:00:36 am »
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Yes, IC failure is not very likely, but for example CMOS IC7 is quite sensitive to ESD, so it can be damaged by just about anything when manipulating around. And this can also cause decoupling of IC4 from IC5.
So it's even possible that the failure doesn't originates from Ali's work.


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Offline Cornelius
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« Reply #222 on: January 31, 2010, 05:43:48 am »
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Peti80 . You hurt me with your last remark  ,, it is possible that the failure does not originate from Ali's work  ,,  . Let me tell you that I am not a newcomer in building metal detectors  . I would not send Ali anything that would not work . I have tested the detector before I sent it to Ali .  I should have enclosed a coil . The detector was in perfect working condition . Don't hurt me like this .   Cornelius

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Offline xavier
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« Reply #223 on: January 31, 2010, 08:48:57 am »
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Hi to you all

If we are going to teach a member to do fault finding then let?s show him/her how to do it the right way and not by simply changing all the components on the board. Doing that or rather advising a member to do so is pointless as that member is NOT learning a thing from it (only to change components) and any fool can change parts at random (although sometimes it is a last resort) further more it will only cause further frustration the next time that he/she has a problem.

Rather let us show our member?s how to do fault finding by the process of elimination  He/She will have a far greater sense of satisfaction having found the fault by them selves (and with a little bit of help from there friends) and will have acquired a good base for fault finding. I know that this is a time consuming process (at first) but we will all be gaining from in the future should that member have (and will) have a new problem that member will have done those preliminary test?s and will be able to inform us better about the fault if he/she has not already solved the problem.
   
By the way I am not attacking you Cornelius and I do hope that you will not take my comment in the wrong way I am merely bringing fourth my point of view and opinion.

Here is the way that I would proceed

1)   Do we have Audio? (Well we had) check for audio out (disconnect the battery pack) connect     pin 8 IC6 to +9v and pin 1 to neg (for a brief moment) if there is audio GOOD and remember that there is no way that a shorted coil could have damaged the 555 (IC6).
2)   Do we have a pulse on the coil? (replace battery pack) Disconnect the coil set DVM to AC switch on is there a reading? Yes GOOD that will mean that TIP31A and IC1 is OK
3)   Check IC4 pin 6 IC7 pin 10 and IC5 pin 6 for signal you should be able to do it with a PC scope mine goes up to 20 Khz you can get it at.

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by the way there is an under score between Scope and en should one of you want to write down the address.
4)   Failing that proceed to check the transistors the most probable one to my opinion that could get damaged would be the TIP31C but Aliman did a check on it and has found it to be OK good initiative on his part way to go. Check all the other transistors but do be aware that some are ECB and some EBC NPN and PNP.
5)   Next would be the diode?s, cap?s and resistor?s if you still do not find a fault then it could be that there is a setting between VR1 and the control pot (the big knob) having done all of that and it still does not work go thought all the solder points check all wiring for continuity (this should be point number one) and finally if you till have not found the fault then replace the IC?s one by one but that would be my last resort.

   
Best regards
Xavier


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So many questions so little time

Offline DougNistler
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« Reply #224 on: January 31, 2010, 09:15:58 am »
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Aliman,
I have found that one of the best tools you can use for electronics troubleshooting is an oscilloscope.  For the frequencies and waverforms encountered in metal detectors a a0 or 20 mhz bandwidth should be sufficient.  e-Bay has literally hundreds of them that can be had for very a resonable cost.  Just make sure there is some sort of warranty or return policy.  Just my 2 nuggets worth.

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Offline Cornelius
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« Reply #225 on: January 31, 2010, 09:21:24 am »
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Xavier . You are so right . That is the way I learned . Making mistake after mistake . Searching in books and building simple things in the beginning . Learning about what diverse parts were supposed to act  etc. etc. etc.   . If Ali can find the time this is the way to do it . If however he only wants one detector and leave it at that he should chenge all the IC's  and start all over leaving just the capacitors and resistors  .  Cornelius    ( ps . thank you for the help you are giving to Ali )

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« Reply #226 on: January 31, 2010, 10:10:52 am »
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Come on Cornelius, why do you think that this one was for you? I was speaking about ESD failure. When working on the circuit, CMOS ics can die in a second, and sometimes you don't even have to touch them.
That's what i was referring to when i said maybe it "wasn't Ali's fault" I know you sent a working detector to Ali.
Don't look for bad intentions where there is none! Wink

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Offline alimanTopic starter
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« Reply #227 on: January 31, 2010, 10:29:22 am »
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Thanks Cornelius, Xavier, Peti80, Homefire for all your guys help. Even in the automotive field theres a term "Parts changer" refering to a person who throws parts at a problem hoping one of them is going to solve it. I'm not one of them!
 I know my limited knowledge of electronics doesn't help, but I know that with all your help I WILL FIND THE FAULT.
 Xavier, thanks for that procedure list, I have downloaded that Scope software and will go through the list  step by step and get back to guys with the results
 
Thanks again to everybody for rallying together to help me Great
Aliman

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Offline xavier
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« Reply #228 on: January 31, 2010, 11:05:39 am »
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That's what this forum is all about Aliman good luck in your search I really do hope that you will find the fault soon. PS you may as well get the IC?s they will come in handy as spare parts and they are not expensive.

 Grin Cornelius I hope that you and Peti80 are not about to start a tennis match. Some times one words thing the wrong way I know that I?m forever reading what I post thinking that I may offend with out intention to. And like they say S*#T happens.

Regards Xavier


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So many questions so little time

Offline Cornelius
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« Reply #229 on: January 31, 2010, 11:29:06 am »
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Xavier , I am too old to pick a fight with anybody , but .... if you read his post carefully I came to the conclusion that if it was not anything that Ali did wrong , who else had the detector in his posession but me ?    No hard feelings though .  Cornelius

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