sharing some history research on the possible confederate treasury legend

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	sharing some history research on the possible confederate treasury legend « on: June 24, 2012, 01:00:42 pm »

By accounts MENTIONED in the OLD TENNESEE VALLEY MAGAZINE AND MERCANTILE ADVERTISER and HISTORY OF ST PAULS EPISCOPAL CHURCH
I thought i would share this with our MEMBERS this is as good historical magazine of the TENESEE VALLEY AND INCLUDING NORTH ALABAMA. and a good source of local history i have ancesters from the east tennesee area who served in the confederate army so i thought it a good place to research hope it helps some one in there searches
the battle of five forks was considered the confederate waterloo general lee had to warn jefferson davis that the seige at petersburg was now over and he could no longer could defend richmond the union army was marching toward richmond on sunday april 2nd jefferson davis was sitting in a pew at st pauls episcopal church when a church sexton handed him a telegram from general lee it said "I advise that preperationfor leaving richmond be made tonight" davis stood up and quitely but quickly left the church he issued the order that the rebel goverment leave town immediately and take all books and records by that afternoon $500.000(some sources say only $40,000) in coins ,gold and silver bars were placed on a train gaurded by naval cadets . it was the entire amount of the confederate treasury davis's train left shortly after just a week later general lee surrendered at appomatox and the civil war was finally over how ever president Lincoln was fatally shot late in the evening of april 14 th jefferson davis was accused of being part of the plot and the search for him took on new urgency davis and his men were on the move they had planned to set up a new goverment in DANVILLE Virginia but they were not safe in Virginia so they continued deeper into the south they went to Greensboro, north carolina to Charlotte and on to GEORGIA were their flight from the union army ended on the early morning of may 10th ,near Irwindale . In june 1865 two months after general Lees urgent message was delivered former general Robert E. Lee was sitting in the congregation of ST. paul's episcopal church. the church dates back to the nite of 1811 and was then the site of the richmond theater which burned with great loss of life including the governer of viginia 72 people in all 54 women 18 men 4 later from burns between 1812 and 1814 a monumental church was built over the ashes of the richmond theater the monumental church was built as a memorial to the fire victims and a large. th. brick crypt containing the remains of those victoms was placed below the portico of the church .the monumental church was the mother church of three other congregations including st pauls church which was built in 1845 sixty seven members left to establish st pauls and raised money to purchase property to build a church to accomodate 1000 people their chosen site was on the corner of grace and 9th st in richmond it was modeled after philidelphia's church of st luke and the epiphany.st paul's became the largest church in virginia

this is just some of the research i came across in my recent travel through Tennesee and about the only i have concerning the possible confederate treasury KGC theriests and skeptics refer to maybe it will spark a thought or a avenue of research for someone to pursue or eliminate or even discredit never the less feel free to discuss and prove either side as gentlemen and ladies

i posted/shared what i could find concerning the treasury please post what research you have found about its recovery the amount ,silver,gold,coins,if and when it was dicovered or captured then i will be respectfully forced to say its not out there till then KEEP LOOKIN YA'LL josey

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	Re: sharing some history research on the possible confederate treasury legend « Reply #1 on: June 24, 2012, 04:58:21 pm »

Your research makes absolutely no sense at all, and only confirms how conspiracy theorists use udder chaos to try and prove their fantasies.

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	Re: sharing some history research on the possible confederate treasury legend « Reply #2 on: June 25, 2012, 08:03:44 am »

this is a historical account that makes no mention of KGC but only the treasury and that it did exist the size is still a question i havent been able to find its recovery and the documents listing what was recovered thats all

Posted on: June 25, 2012, 07:16:34 AM

i read a post on the disbursement of the treasury amoung the confederate army on the way to washington GA. that mentions what the soldiers were given but nothing of what was recovered by the union forces . the post from another source coincides with some of the amounts listed in this account so i feel there was somthing to some of this and no need to doubt the existance of the KGC for they were prominent even in my home state of Indiana. as were other groups copper heads ,etc and were blamed for alot of acts against union forces in my area including derailing a train and helping in Morgans raid through southern indiana and kentucky

Posted on: June 25, 2012, 07:52:44 AM

yea it sounds like chaos, the kind that takes place when you are trying to escape burdened with your goverments treasury during war time with the enemy closing in and no were to to take it based on the accounts . what was the final destination of it ?
josey

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	Re: sharing some history research on the possible confederate treasury legend « Reply #3 on: June 25, 2012, 09:41:51 am »

In April 1865, the Civil War ended for most Americans. The war, and its various aspects, continues to capture the interest and imagination of many Americans who are fascinated by the battles, leaders, and strategy displayed during that conflict. Mysteries endure, too, including the ultimate disposition of the Confederate treasury.

Much of the mystery was engendered by Union officials, who greatly inflated the value of the Confederacy’s treasury to several million dollars. This was probably done to increase the incentive to Union soldiers combing the villages and roads of the Carolinas and Georgia for the treasury, and for Confederate President Jefferson Davis, who had fled Richmond. The actual value of the treasury was probably not much more than $500,000.

The trek south of the Confederate government has been well documented in a number of first hand accounts written several years after the war. The authors were primarily participants in the evacuation of Richmond and they included Confederate cabinet officials, army officers, and treasury employees. Many of the accounts were published in the papers of the Southern Historical Society, in an effort to dispel rumors that Davis took the money for himself and his family. One treasury clerk ― in particular, Micajah Clark ― provided a detailed accounting of the disposition of the funds.

Most folks agree that the treasury was around 500 grand which 300 plus was sent to France to repay a loan. Another 100 to a 150 grand was used to pay off other loans and/or bills. 20,000 dollars was found in the Fla. panhandle a few years back that may have been one of the small caches planted at the time. I bet other caches have been found and kept quite

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	Re: sharing some history research on the possible confederate treasury legend « Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 02:53:04 pm »

thanks for your contribution seldom do you know if what was found happend to be some of the Mexican silver funny thing i noticed in the couple of items or accounts i have read from different sources the amount lessons or decreases a little along the trail wich may coincide with a post i read on the KGC THREAD for payroll to gaurds and officers but is still pretty doggone close so it seems to me folks had a pretty good record or idea of how much was there and like you say the union reports may have exagerated the amounts but on the flip side the confederates may have suppressed /inflated their amounts also and if you take in account the value then vs nowof the reported amounts it is worth alot if the paper money is confederate maybe not though, ? i havent seen that noted anywhere as far if its U.S. denomination or C.S. but the gold and silver just on historical value would be a tidy sum now a days. now the link to the KGC is hard to prove but i know KGC existed however whether or not they were involved with it other than maybe fundraising from members in the north alot of who could have been wealthy and would have income either increased by the war machine or at least been able to sustain their income through the war in comparison to KGC in the south that would have been harder to do i think but i feel in my heart of hearts there was definetly some what of a treasury that either was hid in richmond or brought out or both before it fell heck maybe they couldn't get it all in that short amout of time and stashed some of it and graves may have been the place as many other spots or another theory what if the reported treasure train was a diversion and it went out another way or was hid it would surprise me though if they had put all of their eggs in one basket know what i mean very interesting thanks

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	Re: sharing some history research on the possible confederate treasury legend « Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 03:37:56 pm »

I dont do KGC. But people from the South are proud, and generally not liars. Im glad you are sharing history and not opinions. My take is most was probably spent by now. But as Seldom says, there is always a chance of more being out there. R.O. has a reason he doesnt believe. He may know something I dont, or just like to argue. I see new material here, please keep the conversation going forward.

Posted on: June 25, 2012, 03:36:06 PM

Put the .50 call away R.O. and quit shooting new post down, please. I said please. I love history and treasure, too bad I have more history than treasure.

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	Re: sharing some history research on the possible confederate treasury legend « Reply #6 on: June 25, 2012, 04:11:35 pm »

Josey as far as the 39 or 59 barrels of Mexican silver dollars I for one and many others think its just a legend. The silver was for the sale of cotton to Mexico, by the end of the war the south could not come up with 5 pounds of cotton to make a shirt, what was not burned by the north rotted in the fields because of no labor to pick, gin and bale it. No documentation has ever be found that a sale or shipment ever took place so I say pure legend.

Yea there was an origination called the KGC but like the sisters of the magnolia and the sons of the white camellia it was to just a club thing used to raise funds for the fighting men of the south and like most, people have tried to connect them to the KKK are big caches of gold and silver ever since 1865

Like I said before follow the money. Before anything can be hid it has to be in the possession of the hider. Nobody has ever been able to explain where all the millions came from, where all the labor need to transport and conceal said monies came from. Until these simple questions can be answered the KGC conspiracy boys will continue to be laughed at by the hunters using common sense and logic.

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	Re: sharing some history research on the possible confederate treasury legend « Reply #7 on: June 26, 2012, 08:47:17 am »

i agree seldom it has to be broken down to common sense even as far and as simple as logistics or what it would actually take to handle, move, hide , whatever and all while the jig is up .the amount of man power or horse power even the time to do it all may help set a timeline that could narrow ones search.the devil is in the details i bet .accounts speak of loading and off loading from trains and wagons i wonder what a barrel/keg of silver coins would weigh ? a keg split four ways would probably fill four or five saddle bags and a horse could manage with a rider and or with a pack mule in tow so the coins could have been split possibly moved out probably the easiest the gold and silver bars may be tougher depending on how many and a line of animals may draw alot of attenion if that was a concern vs spliting in different directions . a pack mule could haul one keg maybe 2 kegs with a rack but a barrel /crate would be tough to manage without draft horses unless there were several wagons and documentationand /detachmentscharged or orders would have been signed along the route from mexico to richmond through the south unless it came from a ship then there may have been less paperwork but i did read naval cadets guarded the treasury so a possibility it came from mexico that way is there . as far as the cotton,i bet your right alot was laid to waste back then i do have to say contrary to what folks think alot of the poor white folks in the south back then andeven more recent including my family picked they own cotton right up to my mom and my aunts and uncles . wich irks me when folks claim the war was just over slavery alot never had slaves or the some people here in indiana who call Alabamions and other southerners racist (indiana by the way was at one time the national headquarters for the KKK ) but i enjoy reminding them of it.even though they dont want to hear it its a fact. in the research of the town i live in and elsewere i am sure their were deep divisions when the war broke out and it seems to me alot of information was lost hidden or maybe burned in a fire between then and now because documents and info are hard to find about this town/area with any regard to how many from here left to fight for the C.S. but the union side is well documented as far as what numbers of men and who they were and the individual townships sent to war and were they mustered before leaving and were they went battle but some such things were hidden out of wartime necesity i am sure i did get permission to search one such site but got shot down on another and didnt find anything which was a dissapointment cause i thought for sure i would there was a UNION commanded P.O.W. CAMP here which happens to be the site of a cemetary now so i cant search it for personal reasons anyway good discussion ya'll maybe a some of the info we have shared will open a avenue of research to some one and lead to other info i wish i could link it to the KGC outright but have to be honest its vague at best concerning the treasury from what i know other than possible KGC members may have been involved as officers ETC. charged with moving it but no proof of an organized plan to use it for the KGC purposes it may have been easier if we knew who for sure who all the members were and their role in the trek of the treasury doubt that we will ever know that josey

Posted on: June 26, 2012, 08:23:25 AM

Occassionally , i dont really do KGC either but it interests me if i see somthin related i somtimes read it/share it thats about as far as i go the accounts i posted are just that heck none alive today knows what actually happend so its a good mystery i dont discredit anyones veiws or opinions on the subject even if i dont agree i feel there had to be somthing to the treasury if not no one would be talkin about it. recovered or yet hidden its pretty cool stuff to talk about R.O. is alright he keeps our objectivity side in check and when you dont have alot of proof you have to look at things from an objective side somtimes if nothin else just to make sure it makes sense or stands to reason i enjoy the history/legends and discussions hope it keeps going and folks enjoy it too . josey

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	Re: sharing some history research on the possible confederate treasury legend « Reply #8 on: June 26, 2012, 08:54:59 am »

Josey have a look at Tilghman, Tench, 1833-1867 he was Davis aid at the end of the war. In his diary which is online he tells how some of the gold was divided up and hid in Fl. along with the Confederate papers.

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	Re: sharing some history research on the possible confederate treasury legend « Reply #9 on: June 26, 2012, 09:14:46 am »

ok thanks

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