An Old Challenge - Whatever Happened?

Being skeptical of something that is foreign to conventional science has NEVER, in and of itself, been enough to stifle a REAL worthwhile idea or newly discovered facet of rational science.  If that were the case, we'd still be beating two rocks together and hoping we get a spark so we could make a fire.

On the other hand, being skeptical of something that is obviously a fraud and a scam, can often make it difficult to push that scam onto the general public.  Further, the scam artist will eventually be called out, from where ever they are hiding, and asked to either put up or shutup.

I recently found one such challenge, while searching through some old Internet archives.  Here is a real challenge issued by James Randi, to a real scam artist.  I wonder what happened here... was the test ever conducted.  What were the results?

---

Winders, you run on and on, bitching about all sorts of wrongs done to you
by me and my "voodoo" powers.  Well, let's get on with it.  Forget the
juvenile crap and let's test the "Omnicrom" or whatever.  I have a
million-dollar prize available to you as soon as the thing actually works.
Cross my heart and hope to die.  Scout's honor.  Honest.  JUST DO IT!
Don't carry on with bleating and weeping, but come forth directly and DO
IT!  Call ANYONE as witnesses, ANY object or substance to detect, wherever
you wish.  Get a platoon of lawyers to stand by.  And a few cops, if you
want.  I SAY THAT THE THING YOU'RE SELLING IS A TOTAL FRAUD.  PROVE ME
WRONG BY DOING A SIMPLE, DIRECT, UNDERSTANDABLE, TEST, AND COLLECT ONE
MILLION DOLLARS!  Is that clear?  Do you understand?  I'm making the
challenge, now you'll run for cover by quoting, offering anecdotal
accounts, claiming that the money isn't there, that I'm a witch, you're
afraid of me, you're sick, that I won't pay up if you win, YOU'LL DO
ANYTHING to avoid a simple test!  I know you guys, always dodging and
weaving, so let's see your very best evasion, now.  Start making excuses
and we'll all sit back and laugh at the faker on the run.

PUT UP OR SHUT UP!  A MILLION DOLLARS SAYS YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO SHOW THAT
THIS SILLY TOY WORKS.  NOW START EVADING....

                               James Randi


Linkback: http://thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,35.msg93.html#msg93

		Quote:			Posted by {author}
	Hey Chris...Most people no nothing about a set of L-rods. Did you know that a simple magnet will keep them from working? Did you know that a simple protentiometer will keep the rods from working? What makes you think that these so called easy money test would be fair and honest?...Art

What makes you think the tests would be rigged, or unfair?

BTW, a magnet or a potentiometer or a rock WILL NOT keep dowsing rods from working, unless the operator believes it will in their mind.

The tests don't have to be unfair in order to prove that Wish Science does not work.  You sound like all the poor souls that complain a slot machine is unfair and is rigged.  Slot machines DO NOT have to be rigged or unfair.  They are pre-programmed to only return maybe 97% (or worse) to the player.  Over the long term (many millions of spins) that's exactly what they do, and they make a cool profit for the casino.

A test of an LRL does not have to be unfair to demonstrate that dowsing only produces results that are like guess work.  IF there was any real science or physics involved in an LRL, the test would prove that point.

Why do you suppose an LRL dealer will never submit to a fair test?  It's because there is nothing involved but dowsing and they already know that fact ahead of time.  If they expose that fact to the world by flunking the test, it would be very damaging to the scam they are operating.


Linkback: http://thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,35.msg104.html#msg104

...and you just proved you have no idea how LRL testing is conducted, how LRLs really work, or what mechanisms are required before an L-rod will operate.  

I'll repeat my question: What makes you think the tests would be rigged, or unfair?




Linkback: http://thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,35.msg134.html#msg134

Hello Art, Are you a user of LRL devices ? If you use them have you found any substantial treasure yet. I know a fellow that has a theory. He says gold interacts with the magnetic field of the Earth and emits a signal at 500 Hz. I am curious how anyone determines these frequencies that are associated with like gold ? ok Art CU later and God Bless.

John Tomlinson, CET
John's Detectors
Best in the West !

Linkback: http://thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,35.msg159.html#msg159

		Quote:			Posted by {author}
	I stick by my earlier statement...If your going to use Ideomotor Effects with a LRL your wasting your money...Art

Let's get some facts straight here, and the conversation will go a lot smoother!

LRL stands for long range locator.  LRL does not stand for an L-rod sold with a do-nothing black box filled with a random assortment of electronic components.

Here are some examples of an LRL, ...there are others.

a.) a willow switch
b.) an L-shaped piece of bent wire
c.) an Electroscope Model 301
d.) a weight tied to a piece of string (pendulum)
e.) a Dell Winders Omnitron
f.) a bent coathanger (see b. above)
g.) a Fitzgerald PPL rod
h.) a Y-rod made from small diameter nylon rod

FACT: All of the LRLs listed above REQUIRE an ideomotor response from the operator before they will indicate.

Advocates of the "black box"-assisted dowsing rods can talk about frequencies, and magnetics and fields and FERF all they want; ---but until one of those advocates can demonstrate how their black box-assisted dowsing rods can move without the required ideomotor response; ---all they are doing is just talking.

And talk is cheap.    

Linkback: http://thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,35.msg162.html#msg162

C.....I don't know about this device as I have never used one.
D.....Your right
E.....I have never used an Omnitron but I have used a knock-off and your wrong
G.....I don't use a single rod so I don't know
H.....Never heard of this device

A....The willow switch my Mom used was not controled by Ideomotor Response.

It's simple to disprove your Ideomortor Response theory. Some people can train the mind to ignore it and some can't. All it takes is two coat hangers ( made into L-rods ), 5 bucks in lumber and copper tubing and a coin.

I used an old peice of molding that measured 1 1/4" x 3/8". I measure the length of my rods, added 1/2" and another 3". I then cut 4 peices that length. I clamped them so I could drill them all at the same time. I drilled holes 1/2" from each end and one in the center. I then found some copper tubing that was loose on the handles but not to loose. I cut one piece 7 3/4" long and the other 8 1/4 ". I marked two pieces of the molding 1 1/2" from each end. I used 1/4" bolts to hold the tubing on the 1 1/2" marks. I then marked the other pieces and put them on the tubing leaving the short tubing 1/4" and the long tubing 3/4" above the molding. Make sure the tubing is square to the frame and tighten the bolts

Now you throw a coin on the floor. Put your heel on the coin while holding the L-rods. Did they cross because of the Ideomotor Response or some other reason? Now put the rods in the frame. Move your hands anyway you want to. The rods will not cross. Now step on the coin. If the rods cross it was not because of Ideomotor Response. If they didn't cross all you have to do is to clear your mind and practice until they will cross every time....Art

Linkback: http://thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,35.msg165.html#msg165

		Quote:			Posted by {author}
	A....The willow switch my Mom used was not controled by Ideomotor Response.

You are one very confused fella.

Art, you may as well paint a big red target on your chest (and your billfold) 'cause you are a perfect example of the people who the LRL scam artists just love.

End Of Discussion  :

Linkback: http://thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,35.msg167.html#msg167

If there is a frequency it will come from the earth and it will be more powerful than any black Box. There is some kind of hook up from the rods to targets but no one understand what it is, thank God! BP

I agree with that statement 100%. It is a proven fact that each element has it's own Frequency and it will hook up with a Dowsing Rod. I am also saying that a man made Frequency can hook up to the element and cause the rods to react the same.

Chris.....Sorry I put a big hole in your believe system but you guys always want prove. There it is...Art

Linkback: http://thunting.com/smf/index.php/topic,35.msg172.html#msg172