The Lost City of the Cloud People

Hello All

There are many interesting theories on the origins of mankind on the continents of North and South America.The mind boggles 

Sue and Goldigger between the two of you have both forced me back to books to read up on the topic a bit more.

I am a little lacking of in depth knowledge of the North American Indian cultures in regards to cultural differences between them. So I am a little ignorant of which tribe has more cultural connections with each other. So please forgive me.

From my old worn out memory I recall a culture in Mississippi valley made amazing earthen pyramids that are very similar to Peru and Mexico. They also have amazing mounds shaped like animals.

 There is one called the serpent mound that intrigues me because throughout central and South America the Snake motive is a strong symbol in their respective mythologies.

Also I have found evidence of a bird man cult in South America and on Easter island. I have seen strange rock carvings at Nazca and other places in Peru and Easter Island. There is an old book called Ancient monuments of the Mississippi valley in 1848.By E.G Squier and E.H.Davis.

This book shows strange animal mounds that have been destroyed in less enlightened times and one I believe one of the mounds looks very similar to bird man carvings I have seen in Peru. I understand somewhere in the western United states there was  a wall painting of a Thunderbird in which is part of North America culture.

With all this and much more I could name, I have come to the conclusion with out doubt over hundreds possibly thousands of years, Ideas and cultural beliefs intermingled with each cultures of North and South America through trade. What has intrigued me that I have never seen any serious research into the possible cultural links through trade  between North and South America?

Hardluck 

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Hello Sue

In some respects the tourism will create much needed jobs like always but I hope they never over commercialise the place. The cities on the coast are fairly modern but as you go in country the facilities are almost non existent.Travel in Peru like all of South America needs patience because in some places travel time tables are done on jungle time. 

A good book to read is what we call the travelers bible is the Lonely planet guide to Peru or the whole South American version. It gives great info on where to go, what to and paces to avoid. Places to stay, restaurants travel buses taxis trains and planes tips etc A must read read for any prospective traveler to those regions.

Thanks for the interesting article. In northern Peru there is the tomb the lord of Sipan. the original finders we two brothers and items went off into the black market which ended up in the United states. ( The Same reference I made in a posting  "Unified treasure trove laws needed" in the legal topic about the black market.

The Lord Sipan was in some respects a smaller version in comparison of the discovery king Tut. However just as fascinating.The area is very in in historical and cultural treasures. Please see attachments. That is just some of the many interesting items found. Many its was looted by the Spanish over the centuries and perhaps there is much more to discover. 

Hardluck.   



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		Quote:			Posted by hardluck
	Hello All There are many interesting theories on the origins of mankind on the continents of North and South America.The mind boggles  Sue and Goldigger between the two of you have both forced me back to books to read up on the topic a bit more. I am a little lacking of in depth knowledge of the North American Indian cultures in regards to cultural differences between them. So I am a little ignorant of which tribe has more cultural connections with each other. So please forgive me. From my old worn out memory I recall a culture in Mississippi valley made amazing earthen pyramids that are very similar to Peru and Mexico. They also have amazing mounds shaped like animals.  There is one called the serpent mound that intrigues me because throughout central and South America the Snake motive is a strong symbol in their respective mythologies. Also I have found evidence of a bird man cult in South America and on Easter island. I have seen strange rock carvings at Nazca and other places in Peru and Easter Island. There is an old book called Ancient monuments of the Mississippi valley in 1848.By E.G Squier and E.H.Davis. This book shows strange animal mounds that have been destroyed in less enlightened times and one I believe one of the mounds looks very similar to bird man carvings I have seen in Peru. I understand somewhere in the western United states there was  a wall painting of a Thunderbird in which is part of North America culture. With all this and much more I could name, I have come to the conclusion with out doubt over hundreds possibly thousands of years, Ideas and cultural beliefs intermingled with each cultures of North and South America through trade. What has intrigued me that I have never seen any serious research into the possible cultural links through trade  between North and South America? Hardluck

Reading is good, is it not?

Yes, there is an obvious north-south connection... have you ever read Hiawatha? Where Mondamin, the corn God, incarnate, instructed Hiawatha what to do with his body, after he was defeated.... corn developed in central America, where its closest relative, Teosinte, grows wild. Mondamin is a corruption of munto-mina, which means god-berry or god-seed. Saskitu-mina mean black or dark berry, iskwew-mina is oats, etc. (Iskwew is woman.)

The N.American native cultures are remarkably similar, with more similarities than differences. The differences tend to develope slowly as you go across the continent, with the west coast cultures being the most different from central plains. The same gradual changes occur, going north or south. Nowadays, all of them are adopting much of the plains customs and culture, even the Inuit are getting into it, somewhat.

The mound builders were alive and well, during Ponce de Leon,s visit, yet by the time (after 1776) Americans got there, they were mostly dead and gone. The theory is, de Leon brought European diseases that decimated them, below  the level at which they could survive, as a culture.

I believe I have read that a gene pool minimum of 2000 is needed for culture/racial survival. (I read, too!)

One theory says the place that has the most dialects and languages is the point of entry, to the continent. I used that theory, when I suggest there was a northward mass movement, as well as the southward movement of Dene cultures: California has the highest diversity, while the north, which is claimed as an entry point, basically has 3 language groups: Inuit (last 1500 years,) Dene, which also spread down the Pacific coast ( 6 to 7k yrs) and lastly, the Algonkian cultures.

Yet the north is reputed to have been used for repeated accesses. 

It really is a puzzle.

Sue; the identity crisis is not mine, I know who I am, it is the perception of others, and unfortunately it is a problem.  Being a diabetic, can cause impatience and inattention, but so far I know, it has not affected my forum-ing. The problem is that I started the gold-digger stuff, back in the 70s CB era, and it spread, now, even though I have used  it for around 35 years, I need something new, because it has spread world wide. AND IT IS MY OWN FAULT! 

Oh, yes, Hardluck, THEY say, the more you use your mind, the more alert you remain and even the chance of acquiring Altzheimers, is lessened.... I am 69 and doing great, mentally, (I hope.)

goldigger

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		Quote:			Posted by Sue
	goldigger, 'identity crisis' was poor choice of words - sorry. It's others confusion/errors not yours. I like your handle - you've had it so long that it's you. I think you are one of the most knowledgeable, well read, interesting persons I've bumped into online. I've learned a lot reading your posts. Sue

Blush, choke! 

I have had this personal problem, all my life... called a high IQ, sometimes it can cause real problems. Mind you, It never helped me to be a rocket scientist, nor a brain surgeon... I am just interested in TOO many things. My mother always said I had too many irons in the fire. Plus, I am a frustrated horse nut! Being practical, I can NOT afford a horse habit (or is that have-it)

goldigger

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		Quote:			Posted by hardluck
	Hello Goldigger I am doing great with my memory too! or at least I thought I was?   : Until yesterday............ Now where did I leave those car keys?    Hardluck

OH OH! Guess you are stuck here untillllll..... the cows come home?

Heck, I have been watching gold mining videos for the last 4 hours.... I was stuck, too!

goldigger

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